As part of the Alternative Lifestyles blog-posts migration over to the new blog The Professor’s Lifestyles Memoirs, this post has been moved there. To read this post please click the link to the blog.
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The Professor's Convatorium
Welcome — Come Immerse, Convalesce, Spark Dialogue or Simply Discern
The Professor's Convatorium 
Gosh… there isn’t much I can add that we haven’t already discussed. As much as your dick may have been screaming at you not to be completely honest, I think you made the smart call. I also think that by doing so, she revealed to you pitfalls that you otherwise find yourself falling into.
My bottom line? If you can’t be honest and trust your partner(s), then you probably shouldn’t be with them. Trust is the foundation to any lasting relationship.
Simply by your honesty to your own detriment in this case, you’d think she’d not be so quick to lump you in with all the other hetero men she’s dealt with in her past.
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Your 2nd paragraph is definitely correct. However, was Emmanuel “obligated” in any way to divulge prior sexual intimacies, with ANYONE she doesn’t personally know, with a potential intimate partner who up to that point is an acquaintance-possibly-more? Are we expected to divulge our sexual histories (and perhaps not just prior sexual activities) immediately to acquaintances-possibly-more or expect them to volunteer all of that in the very beginning? Is there some sort of unspoken time-span that “ALL MUST BE KNOWN”? Though I was in a unique position with V-Man and Emmanuel, how “critical” should I be on every new woman-with-potential of her private activities? And should I return the same?
Again, I firmly know that in the early dating stages, most everyone always puts “their best foot (image) forward”. Is that wrong or to be blamed after the expiration of a certain time-frame? Or should we expect it from the get go while doing the same for all those we meet for which we have a sexual interest…PARTICULARLY a BDSM interest!? LOL
Your last paragraph: should we hold others to the same standards we hold ourselves starting at day one, or two? 😉
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I don’t know that ALL must be known…or at least all the details, but in the situation you’ve described in your two posts, much more than the societal norm needs to be shared if for no other reason than safety. Also, I think if one begins to ask questions (pointed, leading ones), then yes, more detailed disclosure is definitely needed or one needs to simply say, “I’m not ready to reveal that much of myself yet.” This way, you both have the opportunity to build trust and/or put on the brakes.
As for your “best foot forward” question…I’m a firm believer that if something is meant to be, they’ll accept you, flaws and all. Sure you can show the best side of your face, but I think there’s a huge difference between showing your best side and hiding yourself behind what you think others WANT to see. I’ve always been a “what-you-see-is-what-you-get” kind of person, so if they don’t take me as I am, they’re welcome to walk away. Less chaff in my life that way. 😉
Strangely enough, I don’t usually hold others to the standards to which I hold myself. I know that many people have been raised with different moral compasses, senses of right and wrong, self esteem, etc…so I try to go on a case by case basis and like each person for who they are. The only things I really have issues with are people who are deliberately cruel, gain their self esteem by belittling others (especially ones weaker than them), and dishonesty (with me….I don’t have as much issue with people who lie to themselves). LOL!
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Well Kitt, no surprise, I agree with everything you’ve stated. We are two peas in a pod when it comes to all this alternative stuff and as we’ve also discovered, we are both BIG on (raw?)communication! 😉
I spent most of Saturday night & all day Sunday with my (renewed) super hot best lesbian friend talking about our BDSM lifestyles as well as her recent breakup with her emotionally-detaching girlfriend of 2 yrs… and one particular subject we talked about into the wee hours of the morning was the semi-honest communication in “the heat of the moment” between D/s or Top/bottom. She confessed to me that in a previous BDSM relationship with a former Domme girlfriend, her safe-word wasn’t always definitive or fully terminating and my best friend LIKED it that way. I expressed my astonishment & concern to her immediately! My point?
Sometimes men & women aren’t quite sure what their limits might be and are wanting to push them a little. I understood her, then suggested a ‘three-and-done’, sort of safe-words similar to your yellow, orange, red sequence: red being STOP NOW. See how this gets into the my-standards-versus-your-standards confusion?
I am wondering if there needs to be some ‘flexibility’ in encounters & situations like discussed, yet with ACUTE awareness of limits. Make sense?
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Professor Taboo,
Since I have not been single or in the world of dating for practically my entire life it is difficult for me to have any relevant input. However, I would like to believe that if I were single that I would be of the same character that I am now. I believe in being 100% transparent and completely honest always, no exceptions.
However, the reality of how would I disclose who I really am as a person or what my true desires are now is almost overwhelming when considering disclosing this to a potential partner. I am over the top on honesty. The smallest of white lies creates an unrecoverable suspicion within me. Everything needs to be completely transparent and honest.
I clearly see the conundrum and can say that I do not have a solution and do not know how I would handle the situation besides if I was going to re-engage within the lifestyle I would have to be completely honest.
Great post!
Mr Fox
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Mr. Fox,
I respectfully disagree; you have MUCH relevancy, experience, and input to give. It will just be from the long-term perspective inside a relationship & marriage rather than the beginning and early stages. Furthermore, your and LK’s beginnings, though not BDSM, will have similarities to everyone else’s romantic relational beginnings. We all were once vanilla before happily crossing over to ‘the Darkside’. 😉
One positive spin to my “conundrum” as you appropriately described it, is I now know full well what it is like to be gay, or lesbian, or transgendered, or black African-American in the 50′s and 60′s. And you might ask How is that positive!?
The cliché “You don’t know unless you’ve been there and done it” holds so true in this case. When I disclose my lifestyles to most vanilla people, a suspicion or a wall goes up quickly. I am automatically (and obviously prematurely) categorized a specific way, usually negatively with psychiatric problems…not unlike gays, lesbians, or blacks. What that has taught me in a lot of ways cannot be measured, but I know this:
My capacity to love, to listen, to empathize, to assist, to understand and forgive grows with every prejudice and discrimination put on me; and by first appearances & demeanor, I am as corporate-America heterosexual a white-man (born in Texas!) book-cover as they come! LOL
To me, those adversities, challenges, and opportunities keep me acutely courageous, human, and grounded in the real-world.
Mr. Fox, you will ALWAYS have something relevant and significant to contribute here! From what I’ve gathered so far, we have several things in common: the best of which is how to love and treat a woman to ALL of her desires and wishes, even the darkest ones. 😉
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Firstly, I thought it was interesting how many people requested the password and how few commented on these posts. You aren’t the only voyeur out there 😉
Next to comment on the substance. I thought it was a very honest post, which eloquently conveyed the conplexities of a BDSM scene/encounter/relationship, and the pitfalls that can arise. The scenario (2? but unnumbered) at the top of the post surprised me. From what we’ve discussed, albeit briefly, that sounded out of character.
I know you would like the BDSM community not to be ostracised, and the result of this shunning of the lifestyle/sexual practice is that people are ignorant about it. Perhaps one of the strongest messages this post makes, as I suspect you intended, is that it isn’t to be approached the same way as wham, bam, PIV, thank you ma’am/sir, which is how many encounters occur due to a mutual and urgent sexual need. I think at one point, you said the key was planning.
Again, I enjoyed reading this and found it thought-provoking.
One question though, for clarification. I may have misunderstood. Your friend said he’d fucked E. She said he hadn’t and that she’d rejected him. If I read/interpreted that correctly, why did you believe him and not her?
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Roughseas,
Your first point is quite right. It is a little voyeuristic isn’t it? I guess we all have some level of kinky soft-perversions. 😈
The 2 scenarios surprised you? Out of character? How so?
“…the result of this shunning of the lifestyle/sexual practice is that people are ignorant about it.”
This is certainly true. The biggest reason why it’s true is that it is not openly practiced, exhibited, or at least discussed. Second, when abusive assaulters (murders too?) get outted or arrested, their heinous unconsensual acts get erroneously thrown into the “perverted abuse” of evil S & M. A lesser reaction happens within our community when those predators DON’T get caught or outted. In the latter cases, almost 98% of the time the female bottom/submissive was NOT following proper safe protocol with a lone (unknown) Dom/Top… who NEVER practice “their art” publically. A HUGE red-flag in our community!
To your final question, you did read that correctly: he did fuck E. Why do I believe him and not her? Because “V-man” and I have done so much together for many years, in many situations, including many like these where things went WELL BEYOND what I shared in these two posts… and by the time this story happened, there was no logical good reason for him to lie about it. Why? Because V-man already knew/knows that typical average fucking (as he usually does) doesn’t interest me much. It doesn’t behoove him or his “image” to tell me that… UNLESS it would benefit a future encounter with E. Hence, he was right in that anticipation — as I discovered later from E. 🙂
Regarding why I didn’t believe E is because 90% of Southern U.S. women care deeply about not appearing as or being labelled as “a loose, easy promiscuous” woman. Therefore, they will hide or lie about their true actions/thoughts, until she feels more comfortable the listener would be very discreet with her “secret(s)”. I’ve watched & listened to this a million times.
Thank you very much for your comment, thoughts, and questions! 🙂
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Your first point is quite right. It is a little voyeuristic isn’t it? I guess we all have some level of kinky soft-perversions. 😈
Outside comfort zone?
The 2 scenarios surprised you? Out of character? How so?
No. The handcuff scenario surprised me as it didn’t fit with what little I know about you. It didn’t ring true.
To your final question, you did read that correctly: he did fuck E. Why do I believe him and not her? Because “V-man” and I have done so much together for many years, in many situations, including many like these where things went WELL BEYOND what I shared in these two posts… and by the time this story happened, there was no logical good reason for him to lie about it. Why? Because V-man already knew/knows that typical average fucking (as he usually does) doesn’t interest me much. It doesn’t behoove him or his “image” to tell me that… UNLESS it would benefit a future encounter with E. Hence, he was right in that anticipation — as I discovered later from E. 🙂
Regarding why I didn’t believe E is because 90% of Southern U.S. women care deeply about not appearing as or being labelled as “a loose, easy promiscuous” woman. Therefore, they will hide or lie about their true actions/thoughts, until she feels more comfortable the listener would be very discreet with her “secret(s)”. I’ve watched & listened to this a million times.
My gripe about this is that 1) it reminds me of a woman’s word being disregarded in rape cases—and I am not for a minute suggesting any inference of rape here, and 2) I found out many years later that a not-a-boyfriend had told mutual friends we had sex, ie PIV. We didn’t. But I didn’t lose sleep over it.
And of course, I have no concept of the mores of the deep south. Luckily.
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Damn, I missed my cue. And the reason she would lie (if she did) is because we live in a sexist patriarchal society 🙂
But who did my friends believe? In fact, they never asked me … so that says it all.
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It all appears pretty cultural doesn’t it? 🙂
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My gripe about this is that 1) it reminds me of a woman’s word being disregarded in rape cases—and I am not for a minute suggesting any inference of rape here, and 2) I found out many years later that a not-a-boyfriend had told mutual friends we had sex, ie PIV. We didn’t. But I didn’t lose sleep over it.
See, too much is being made about simple useful normal sex that 95% of the population needs and wants. I give “vanilla” sex a significance of 3-stars out of 5; its very common. It DOESN’T deserve so much hype either way! LOL And honestly, if V-man was lying I wouldn’t lose sleep over it because 3-star sex only becomes Platinum 5-star (or more with cig afterwards!) if there is a sapiosexual primal sweaty element with it. V-man knew this/knows that. I have also since gotten to know pretty well E — as not only a Southern U.S. woman — and she does struggle with her beautiful delicious inner-slut versus what society expects and passively demands.
Fyi Roughseas — PLEASE don’t take offense to my word “slut”. When I use it, I use it with MUCH deep affection and encouragement. A sort of “in your face Puritan America”!
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See, too much is being made about simple useful normal sex that 95% of the population needs and wants. I give “vanilla” sex a significance of 3-stars out of 5; its very common. It DOESN’T deserve so much hype either way! LOL
It’s better than no sex. Say, for example, what’s wrong with giving a blow job and swallowing? (I am on the password site aren’t I?) or mutual masturbation? Or?
And honestly, if V-man was lying I wouldn’t lose sleep over it because 3-star sex only becomes Platinum 5-star (or more with cig afterwards!)
Cig?
if there is a sapiosexual primal sweaty element with it.
Isn’t most sexual attraction partly sapio?
V-man knew this/knows that. I have also since gotten to know pretty well E — as not only a Southern U.S. woman — and she does struggle with her beautiful delicious inner-slut versus what society expects and passively demands.
Fyi Roughseas — PLEASE don’t take offense to my word “slut”. When I use it, I use it with MUCH deep affection and encouragement. A sort of “in your face Puritan America”!
Forget it. I’ve read your other comments on it. Reclamation of language doesn’t work. Especially from a man. You need some feminist education, sweetheart.
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Indeed. Sexistly so. Message filtering through yet?
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Message filtering through yet?
Unlikely. I’m just an “odd American into BDSM“. 😉 😛
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