Yes? No? – Consent

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The other night I watched a half-hour VICE Newscast segment called “Consent.” It covered all the latest notable cases of questionable to rape-assault cases that have become national news like Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Aziz Ansari, Roy Moore, or Brett Kavanaugh. Here is the full episode. I highly recommend watching the entire 28-mins:

The part of this newscast that most struck me, and really appalled me, especially the aggressive men interviewed or the typical alpha-male in those exploitative situations — most of them around large amounts of alcohol — was that no one in the entire documentary, hinted anything about timing! More specifically, appropriate reasonable elapsed time when meeting for the first-time and possibly becoming intimate. Most of the interviews addressed initial encounters by strangers(?), maybe second-time encounters with each other. It seems by this documentary and the thousands of cases we constantly hear or read about that these incidents are happening (for the most part) between strangers or early-acquaintances. This shocks me! The speed or pace at which these aggressors (men) move are in my opinion vile. I have so many thoughts and angered responses about these abuses, how they go unaddressed, undisciplined, or unreported to law-enforcement way too often. It is a very serious social problem and disgrace; some/much of it absolutely criminal!

However, before I say anymore I want all of you to share your thoughts, start this discussion about this VICE Newscast and the subject of consent. What exactly constitutes an unambiguous yes or no for sexual activity? Please feel free to be brutally honest with your comments.

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40 thoughts on “Yes? No? – Consent”

  1. This should be simple: “Yes” or “No”!!!! This whole “he said, she said” dynamic is ridiculous! Give a clear answer and a clear intention either way! Men aren’t mind readers, ladies! If you don’t like something he’s doing, or his come ons, say “No!”, don’t just try to send off signals you don’t want to and hope he reads your mind for you! come out and say “no, I’m not interested!”. If the guy still persists, he is clearly in the wrong, but if you don’t even give him a solid “no’, he may not know! Guys respond differently to subtle body language than women!!! Stop the ambiguity, it’s yea or nay people!!! As a woman, women need to be more proactive and less passive in these situations! we’re not helpless damsels in distress!

    The Flaws of #MeToo

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    • LoR, in many of these cases some type of chemical substances or alcohol were consumed by one, between both, or by all parties involved. What are your thoughts about when everyone involved are clearly conscious, but due to the chemicals consumed appear/are very uninhibited? Are the lines and boundaries so clear-cut, i.e. articulated clearly and then thoroughly understood by the initiator?

      And furthermore, if there are ANY DOUBTS whatsoever, what then is the best course of action?

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        • Just for the sake of more clarity LoR, would you impose some type of DWI or DUI guidelines/laws for private social gatherings with alcohol/drugs… along the lines of what many parties do designating a Key Master who held everyone’s car-keys til the end of the party?

          In our SSC BDSM lifestyle 95% – 100% of the time we have Dungeon-monitors or Party-monitors for everyone’s safety. And unless there are attendees who are new to the lifestyle visiting, everybody already knows the Rules of Conduct; many times we members sign that Questionnaire and ROC and they are on file. šŸ™‚

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          • Maybe not that far, but people need to use good judgment, or suffer the consequences! Men and women! If you get so drunk you will either lower your inhibitions and assault someone, or become vulnerable to victimization in your altered state, it’s clear that’s NOT a wise move! Drunken actions rarely ever are for the good of humanity! šŸ˜¦ We need to teach people not to glorify getting drunk and high at gatherings then make foolish, dangerous choices that hurts them and others!

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  2. PT, I don’t watch videos so I can’t comment on the one you put forth. However, I do have some thoughts on the “yes-no” perspective.

    Speaking from a woman’s perspective, there are different types of a negative answer. In the flirting environment, a “no” is often just that … flirting . As the relationship moves to a more intimate environment, a “no” may mean, “I’m not ready yet” … or “I don’t like you doing that” … or any number of other scenarios.

    BUT! When things move into the performance of “the act,” a “no” can take on a very different and often much more serious meaning — particularly when the woman says NO! and the man continues to advance. I’m well aware that the male doesn’t like it when the “no” is presented at this stage of the game (due to biological reasons), but be that as it may … when a woman has emphatically stated that she does not wish to continue by giving an “unambiguous response” … it is rape. Pure and simple.

    There’s no doubt that sexual activities can often be quite ambiguous, but from a woman’s perspective, if I say “NO!”, that means “Stop what you’re doing … NOW!”

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    • Nan, I am glad you dissected this so well. šŸ™‚ You alluded to stages of development, like a “flirting” phase implying there are more than just one, or should be! I think that is key in all of this confusion, exploitation, or assault-rape. However, even when couples/groups are playing flirty games and/or being coy and/or speaking in sly connotations or innuendoes, for you personally how long does or should it take for people, couples to SAFELY understand the exact (or probable?) meaning and intent? Can people, men especially, decipher and discern that after 1-hour or 1-night?

      And yes, absolutely! A clear emphatic NO! means stop! Stop immediately! If the man doesn’t, that is rape-assault. Period.

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      • … for you personally how long does or should it take for people, couples to SAFELY understand the exact (or probable?) meaning and intent? Can people, men especially, decipher and discern that after 1-hour or 1-night?

        I hate to admit it, but at my age (which is considerably older than most of you), it’s “been awhile” so I’m unable to give “first-hand” accounts of how long it takes. šŸ™„ However, speaking in general terms (and past experience), I would have to say it really depends on the circumstances. There’s no doubt alcohol plays a part. In fact, I daresay that’s probably the biggest hindrance to “interpretation.” However, under “normal” circumstances, I agree with “a lady of reason” when she wrote If one is clearly sober, they took the wrong advantageā€¦. IOW … “no” means “no” — not maybe, not I’ll think about it, not if you can persuade me otherwise, etc.

        Not sure what you’re asking in the second part of your question … ??

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        • Thank you Nan. I was just curious from a “woman’s perspective” what is the appropriate or reasonable and safe time-period, elapsed time to know well your partner(s) communication style. It seemed to me in this VICE newscast that the majority (if not all?) of these rape-assault cases that these people were strangers when they met, or early-acquaintances, or semi-friends(?) — with the exception of the lady “Alexis” in the Restoration expert and interview with her and her rapist 10+ years later; they had been good friends for some time — and I was just initially disturbed that sex (or aggressive, primal sex?) became a subject or thing SO QUICKLY!!! šŸ˜® You hardly know anything about each other! But that’s me. I’ve often been described by men and women, mostly those 15-25 years younger than me, as “Old School.” That you invest a safe, respectful amount of time with each other BEFORE even broaching that activity!!! LOL

          I wanted your feedback about that? Can ANYBODY discern perfectly a person’s intentions, emotions, and communication or “flirt language” in a matter of 30-mins or 1-night, one date?

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          • Yes, in certain circumstances, I do think a person can make the determination. Mostly, it has to do with the “attraction level.” IOW, nothing may happen on that first date, but if the connection is there, perhaps on the second or third date.

            By the same token, if it’s just physical attraction (or perhaps the person is going through a “dry spell”), then once is probably enough … if you get my drift. šŸ™‚

            Hope this answers your question.

            An interesting topic for discussion …

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            • It does. Thanks. I think I get your “drift.” šŸ¤” Once? As in one no or one yes? Then get out of your bed, living room, kitchen — wherever the raunchiness took place — and don’t call you, you’ll call me? Not. šŸ˜„

              I’m just trying to clarify here so there is absolutely NO CONFUSION as to what exactly is expected. šŸ¤­ In fact, use crayons for me if necessary. LOL

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            • C’mon Professor! This is a topic that cannot be easily dissected nor are there any “hard and fast” rules. It all depends on the people, the circumstances, the level of desire, the attraction element, the physical condition, etc., etc. I think/thought I spelled out my personal perspective on when “no” is “no.” I really don’t know what else to say to answer your inquiry … ??

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            • I was being a bit tongue-n-cheek — but not marginalizing in the least the seriousness of clear rape-assault! — about just how slippery, tricky, ambiguous, or poorly communicated intent and expectations can be (in early stages) about sex, as you stated. There are indeed numerous variables involved in every different circumstance.

              I know you don’t watch videos, but this is one of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite comedies which illustrates just how complex emotions, attraction, sex, etc, can become, particularly in the early stages. Again, this is in no way to marginalize the seriousness of clear-cut rape-assault…

              In the end, Harmony (Monaghan) literally had to grab and pull Harry (Downey, Jr) onto her and essentially spell it out to him: It is okay to ravish me! Sometimes being just that blunt is exactly what is needed. šŸ™‚

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  4. One would think that a simple “yes” or “no” would suffice, but unfortunately human sexuality isn’t that simple. I sure wish it was, though.

    Aggressive males are not inclined to take “no” for an answer, and that is quite apparent to everyone. BTW, Professor, the name of the man you cited is Brett Kavanaugh.

    And, this may come as a shock to some people, but there are a lot of men who are either not very aggressive or are downright passive about sexual interactions. Personally speaking, I’ve walked away from sexual interactions on numerous occasions where the woman either said “no” or behaved in a manner which I perceived as a negative reaction. After stopping, I was typically asked: “What’s wrong?”

    I believe we humans have such sexual problems because finding the right match for us individually is very difficult. We keep moving from encounter to encounter constantly looking for the perfection which doesn’t exist. It is our high expectations which drives this.

    That said, sexual predation is a crime which should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

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    • Ah, yes. Thank you for that correction Robert. Changed it. šŸ˜‰

      As you and I have already touched on before with some of my other blog-posts regarding my Alternative Lifestyles, clearly articulated communication and language in this context is sadly a very poor, unqualified(?) field of participants. šŸ˜¦ Many aren’t even sure of how to articulate their OWN feelings to someone. But what I find even MORE disturbing Robert, is how SHY people can be talking brutally honest with each other about these things!

      Wow! šŸ˜• We don’t have hardly any of these issues, confusions, or abuses in our lifestyles. Ugh, I wish I could help more. ā¤

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        • Of course I’m a bit bias, šŸ˜‰ but many women in our lifestyle admit and promote the fact that when you create a SAFE and wide-open environment like we do and encourage in our meets/parties, etc, the liberation and articulation just soars thru the roof!!! It is all SO sex-positive with no shaming allowed, ever! šŸ™‚

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            • Yes. And let me say too that E.L. James — the author of the 50 Shades series — has sadly done some irreparable damage to our lifestyle, let alone what she’s fueled in the mainstream vanilla lifestyle! What’s more irritating Robert about E.L. James and any who speak, critique, produce, or write about our Alternative lifestyles is unless you’ve lived it and been immersed in it for years or decades… you most likely don’t know what you’re talking about. E.L. James has never ONCE been inside a dungeon or been a member of any legal, SSC BDSM community. Everything she writes and has written is pure fiction out of her head. It represents very little to nothing of our actual lifestyles.

              Sadly, she has spawned countless teen-males, 20-yr old males, and other aged (disturbed?) males a pseudo-permission to exploit and abuse women. Granted, I have not read any of her latest books and it might appear that she did a better job empowering her female character(s), BUT if she did do that (I’m unsure), she did so too late. šŸ˜ 

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  5. Well, I say, as long as a man realizes that, even though he’s a celebrity or rich, he can’t simply grab women by the pussy because of said wealth or celebrity, we haven’t gone too far down a negative rabbit hole in our society. Christ, could you imagine if, say, one of our presidents believed in, and stated aloud, such a belief? What kinda role model would he be? Welp, at least there’s no chance in hell of anything like THAT happening in today’s world. Though, there was that comment Hillary made in 2016 about grabbing men by the cock and balls whenever she wanted to because she’s famous, but, as we all know, that cost her the election. Horrid thing to say. Was it not. Made me slam my legs shut and buy a cup when I first heard it. Yuck.
    (Good video, BTW.)

    P.S. I’m with Robert on this one. I’ve always been pretty passive with sexual encounters, and if I even sense a “I’m not sure,” it’s over. Kills the woody right then ‘n there. I’m very attracted to women who are very much in control of things regarding sex. I likes it! This explains my years long sexual trysts with Scarlett Johansson, Angelina Jolie, and Keira Knightley which you may have read about. Fun times those. šŸ™‚

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    • You know Jeff, guys like you and Robert and those who are typically passive with regard to sexual matters should NEVER be looked down upon or heckled. And I would assume — correct me if I’m wrong Jeff/Robert — that once you and your partner got to know each other really well, comfortable over a long period of time, you are not so passive, yes?

      And another point, if you sense a “I’m not sure” or it is a clear, blatant “No, not now” provided you’re not making those advances in the first 5-mins or first few days/weeks of first meeting(?), šŸ˜› that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible next week or next month! It’s sometimes not an All-in or All-out-Never after the first respectful attempt or second. Does that make sense? It doesn’t have to be so devastating never-ever reaction on the first or second attempt. But obviously be OPEN and forthright in your communication!

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      • Right. It means “no” right then when I get that signal. Man-handling or aggressively trying to convince someone to have sex who I don’t sense is into it or me, is a huge turn off. Also, at my age now, my interest is not what it once was. I mean, there’s good stuff on TV ‘n shit to watch too! šŸ™‚ But even when my hormones were raging, a “no” signal shut those flat off. I think some guys take a disinterested signal as a glaring go ahead. I call them idjits. Also, I think some idjits are intimidated by women who are sexually confident and even aggressive sexually. I likes it! Or, I did. Now I’ve got Netflix. šŸ™‚

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    • John, that’s a totally valid question. As Nan, LoR, Robert, and Jeff and I have briefly discussed it depends on a few factors, at least initially.

      Age/ages (experience?) will play a factor to some degree. Amount of chemicals consumed; this can include date-rape drugs too. But as LoR pointed out, we’re all still responsible for what and how much we KNOWINGLY consume and of course if excessive amounts of chemicals are involved, and HERE is what is apparently not being adequately driven home to those men looking to exploit, it does NOT give any permission to an aggressor to take advantage of a less-than perceptive target. That needs to include when they are obviously influenced and obviously uninhibited by those chemicals — have the honor, dignity, and patience to WAIT until another time to see if he/she are really into you when clean/sober! This all applies most definitely, with NO EXCEPTIONS to initial and early-stages of relational (romantic, erotic) development!

      But I know I’m not really telling you anything you don’t already know. Yet, that said and to your question, there is without a doubt suspicious, horrible, dishonorable behaviors that are being allowed by bystanders when in public circumstances. And yet, poor communication is happening — as opposed to hyper-articulated firm (tactful?) verbalization — and the acute direct communication is not being done in some cases, and worse, not being respected by aggressors/initiators, much less showing caution if there are any doubts or confusion on his (her?) part. And IMHO, if sex is already being discussed within 30-mins of just meeting for the first time (i.e. strangers), šŸ˜® then clear, bold, firm, proactive communication MUST be done immediately! If it is “No” or “not now,” and the aggressor continues, scale up your resistant language proportionately! Then be prepared to get the hell away from the predator(s) FAST! The other side of this is that the perpetrators or predators (if it didn’t go far enough) need to be confronted and in no uncertain terms be told/shown his (her?) behavior is completely unacceptable and continued behavior will result in legal actions.

      Your thoughts? Further thoughts Sir?

      Later addition — John, I just remembered that the owner of the NBA Dallas Mavericks Mark Cuban is painfully learning the HARD WAY what it means and costs if you maintain that old antiquated (fucked up!) mentality of Good Ole Boys and just sit by passively looking the other way. THAT is what needs to change the most in our male societies. Women cannot do this all on their own.

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    • That was a very compelling read Jim. Glad you shared it. I’m not going to specifically speak here on her personal story there — being so intoxicated that she was blacked out practically the entire evening she writes about — I want others to go read it.

      Nevertheless, there are almost always 3-sides to every story: Yours, mine, and the Monday morning news. And honestly, there’s even MORE than just 3-sides. One of our veteran women in our Alt Life community, a long admitted submissive, usually shares her own “safety” story when she was young and a naive novice about meeting strangers for a first-meet. Typically our protocols we teach to ALL newbies and their first-meets are:

      1) meet at a very public place,
      2) have 1 or 2 friends nearby or at least as a safety-bail phone call, and
      3) if alcohol is involved in ANY way, do not leave with the stranger to a private location no matter HOW charming, fun or clever they might be!

      Our Alt-member friend followed #1, but broke protocol on #2 and #3. When she was finally found — almost 2-days later — suspended by all fours in her downstairs basement in a coma, her Alt-friends immediately rushed her to the ER. She came out of her coma 3-4 days later. She had been brutally beaten and many other horrible things done to her sexually. Needless to say she was EXTREMELY lucky her friends did not give up looking for her.

      One-night stands with total strangers are really no different than playing Russian Roulette with your safety and life. Sometimes you might get unbelievably lucky, sure. But is it really worth the health risks or your life? For one night?

      Thanks again for sharing that. šŸ™‚

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  8. One thing is the movies promote this sort of thing. Rom-coms have the plot of a nerd who stalks a woman, who rejects him. He keeps stalking until she realizes he is a great guy and dates him. The message is that said male is entitled to whoever they want even if the woman is consistent in her no. These plots are directed to the beta and gamma males.

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    • Hi ND and thank you for the feedback. šŸ™‚

      Rom-coms have the plot of a nerd who stalks a woman, who rejects him. He keeps stalking until she realizes he is a great guy and dates him.

      Hmmm, interesting cinematography critique of Rom-coms. Audiences should realize the significant difference between a film based on a true story is NOT 100% accurate/true, and that a film which is purely fictional doesn’t necessarily represent what goes on in real-life. That said, when a “Based on a true story” film is showing and is 85% – 95% true with a particular rom-com movie, obviously the audience should also realize the vista of variables influencing a couple’s encounter. There are a plethora of actual factors in real-life versus silver-screen fictional life that the screenwriter and producers must cram-in, cut-out, edit, etc, in order to fit inside the “standard” 1-hr 45-min to 2-hr time slot, which honestly is nowhere near enough time to dramatically show the REAL-LIFE factors and variables that exist between real-life characters. Surely I am not saying anything here that audiences don’t already know and apply after watching a 2-hr rom-com film, yes?

      Beta and gamma males? šŸ˜µ

      Hmmm, those two designations would require a whole separate post or two/three to properly and correctly tackle. LOL For example, Wikipedia states with regard to Beta-males:

      Tracy Clark-Flory wrote for Salon that she prefers the words “sensitivity, emotional intelligence, and peacemaking” to “beta”.

      Personally, I like that description as opposed to some contrasting beta to alpha-males. It’s all quite hair-splitting, huh? And Gamma-males? HAH! I better leave that one alone. LOL šŸ˜„

      Thanks again NR for this intriguing feedback!

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